: 推 FRAXIS: 如果我把 pretax 401k 轉 roth 401k 然後再轉 roth ira 09/13 13:49
: → FRAXIS: 在 Roth IRA 的 withdrwal ordering rule 裡面 09/13 13:50
: → FRAXIS: 是當成 contribution? taxable conversion? non-taxable? 09/13 13:50
這裡分了幾個部份
原本在 Roth 401k 裡，含有 contribution (basis) 、 earnings
假設完全沒有做 in-plan conversion (pre-tax 401k / after-tax 401k -> Roth 401k)
那麼根據 26 CFR § 1.408A-10 (3)(a) 可知
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/26/1.408A-10
Roth 401k 中的 contribution 會直接變成 Roth IRA 的 contribution
earnings 會直接變成 Roth IRA 的 earnings ，兩者都不會變成
"有五年限制的 conversions"
但如果 Roth 401k 裡有 conversions，情況就有點複雜了
從 Notice 2010-84 Q&A (12) 來看
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-10-84.pdf
> Section 408A(d)(3)(F) of the Code provides that any distribution from a
> Roth IRA that is allocable to the taxable amount of a rollover to the Roth
> IRA (other than from another Roth IRA or a designated Roth account) made
> within the preceding 5 taxable years is treated as includible in gross
> income for purposes of applying the 10% additional tax under § 72(t).
> The 5-year recapture rule also applies if the rollover to the Roth IRA
> is from a designated Roth account and the distribution is allocable to
> the taxable amount of an in-plan Roth rollover made within the
> preceding 5 years. (See Q&A-12 of this notice.)
in-plan rollover 到 Roth 401k 的 conversion 會受到
五年限制，同時，如果把他從 Roth 401k 再次 rollover
到 Roth IRA ，也會受到五年限制
> Q&A 12: ...
> The 5-year recapture rule in this Q&A-12 does not apply
> to a distribution that is rolled over to another designated
> Roth account of the participant or to a Roth IRA owned by
> the participant; however, the rule does apply to subsequent
> distributions made from such other designated Roth account
> or Roth IRA within the 5-taxable-year period.
而且這個五年似乎是從 after-tax 401k -> Roth 401k 開始算起
而且既然同個 rule apply to subsequent
distribution
表示他的 non-taxable & taxable portions
應該是用當初 after-tax 401k -> Roth 401k 時的 basis
算的
照這樣解讀似乎可以想成如果把 Roth 40k 轉進 Roth IRA
則裡頭的 conversions 就會彷彿一開始就是 convert 進
Roth IRA 一樣
不過這裡似乎沒有明確指出，這樣轉過去的 conversion 部份
在 ordering rules 到底是以何種順序被取出
年份是以當初 in-plan conversion 還是 rollover 到 Roth IRA 來算？
（我個人覺得似乎彷彿可能是以 rollover 到 Roth IRA 的那個年度算的）
感覺做太多次的話報稅起來可能相當困擾
--
: → FRAXIS: 在 Roth IRA 的 withdrwal ordering rule 裡面 09/13 13:50
: → FRAXIS: 是當成 contribution? taxable conversion? non-taxable? 09/13 13:50
這裡分了幾個部份
原本在 Roth 401k 裡，含有 contribution (basis) 、 earnings
假設完全沒有做 in-plan conversion (pre-tax 401k / after-tax 401k -> Roth 401k)
那麼根據 26 CFR § 1.408A-10 (3)(a) 可知
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/26/1.408A-10
Roth 401k 中的 contribution 會直接變成 Roth IRA 的 contribution
earnings 會直接變成 Roth IRA 的 earnings ，兩者都不會變成
"有五年限制的 conversions"
但如果 Roth 401k 裡有 conversions，情況就有點複雜了
從 Notice 2010-84 Q&A (12) 來看
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-10-84.pdf
> Section 408A(d)(3)(F) of the Code provides that any distribution from a
> Roth IRA that is allocable to the taxable amount of a rollover to the Roth
> IRA (other than from another Roth IRA or a designated Roth account) made
> within the preceding 5 taxable years is treated as includible in gross
> income for purposes of applying the 10% additional tax under § 72(t).
> The 5-year recapture rule also applies if the rollover to the Roth IRA
> is from a designated Roth account and the distribution is allocable to
> the taxable amount of an in-plan Roth rollover made within the
> preceding 5 years. (See Q&A-12 of this notice.)
in-plan rollover 到 Roth 401k 的 conversion 會受到
五年限制，同時，如果把他從 Roth 401k 再次 rollover
到 Roth IRA ，也會受到五年限制
> Q&A 12: ...
> The 5-year recapture rule in this Q&A-12 does not apply
> to a distribution that is rolled over to another designated
> Roth account of the participant or to a Roth IRA owned by
> the participant; however, the rule does apply to subsequent
> distributions made from such other designated Roth account
> or Roth IRA within the 5-taxable-year period.
而且這個五年似乎是從 after-tax 401k -> Roth 401k 開始算起
而且既然同個 rule apply to subsequent
distribution
表示他的 non-taxable & taxable portions
應該是用當初 after-tax 401k -> Roth 401k 時的 basis
算的
照這樣解讀似乎可以想成如果把 Roth 40k 轉進 Roth IRA
則裡頭的 conversions 就會彷彿一開始就是 convert 進
Roth IRA 一樣
不過這裡似乎沒有明確指出，這樣轉過去的 conversion 部份
在 ordering rules 到底是以何種順序被取出
年份是以當初 in-plan conversion 還是 rollover 到 Roth IRA 來算？
（我個人覺得似乎彷彿可能是以 rollover 到 Roth IRA 的那個年度算的）
感覺做太多次的話報稅起來可能相當困擾
--
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