台積電很強本質只是高級輪班作業員 - 工程師
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By Sandy
at 2022-02-10T21:18
at 2022-02-10T21:18
Table of Contents
※ [本文轉錄自 cjol 信箱]
作者: Sam27 (Sam) 看板: Gossiping
標題: Re: [問卦] 台積電很強本質只是高級輪班作業員?
時間: Tue Feb 8 13:05:29 2022
※ 引述《brbear (I'm professional)》之銘言:
: #1Xys-UEP (Gossiping)
: → dly: 光刻機是艾斯摩爾做的,台灣負責出人輪班把
: → dly: 機器調到最佳狀態,良率拉到世界第一
: #1X_HWLNR (DummyHistory)
: → fc01: GG現在就是靠國家補助培養出來的高級作業員打遍天下無敵手..
: → fc01: 台大化學系教授幹譙說他們訓練的碩士班學生畢業之後都去竹科
: → fc01: 這件事不是還上新聞?
: 台積電的工程師並不是工程師
: 只是輪班賣肝操作機台高級作業員?
: 台積電本質也只是代工?替歐美企業打工?
: 有洋人的打工仔高級作業員打遍台灣無敵手的八卦?
ASML其實也是靠台積回饋數據才能研發下一台曝光機好嗎???
你以為ASML沒有fab廠數據搞得出來喔
且就算沒有ASML,也還有Nikon阿,當初聯電就是和Nikon綁再一起
ASML反而要感謝台積願意跟它合作好嗎,不然台積跟Nikon,ASML誰會聽過???
這是分工的世界,本來就沒有甚麼產品是全部自己搞得
所有的產品都要合作,合作分工懂嗎??
就像美國車廠,國防,可能螺絲都要跟台灣買一樣
所以你會說美國的國防都要靠台灣的螺絲嗎??????
特斯拉,全球電動車,80%也是要跟台灣買晶片,買馬達
沒台灣的晶片,梅台灣的馬達,你怎組裝???
所以你會全球電動車都靠台灣???
最後
IC製造主要是難在,製程有2~3百多道
Dram,我記得大概是20~30道
LCD,大概是10~15道
很多傳產大概也是在10~30道之間
光是要顧的參數複雜度就是一般產業的幾十倍
除了耐操,主要是要非常細心在很多細節,工作是很無聊的
目前除了飛機要幾千道外,沒有任何商業產品的複雜度超過IC製造
至於台灣為何這麼強,可以參考張忠謀自傳
1.亞洲人手小,良率會比歐美高
2.台灣政府,也就是孫運璿和李國鼎遠見
日韓沒有孫李,所以就輸台灣了
--
作者: Sam27 (Sam) 看板: Gossiping
標題: Re: [問卦] 台積電很強本質只是高級輪班作業員?
時間: Tue Feb 8 13:05:29 2022
※ 引述《brbear (I'm professional)》之銘言:
: #1Xys-UEP (Gossiping)
: → dly: 光刻機是艾斯摩爾做的,台灣負責出人輪班把
: → dly: 機器調到最佳狀態,良率拉到世界第一
: #1X_HWLNR (DummyHistory)
: → fc01: GG現在就是靠國家補助培養出來的高級作業員打遍天下無敵手..
: → fc01: 台大化學系教授幹譙說他們訓練的碩士班學生畢業之後都去竹科
: → fc01: 這件事不是還上新聞?
: 台積電的工程師並不是工程師
: 只是輪班賣肝操作機台高級作業員?
: 台積電本質也只是代工?替歐美企業打工?
: 有洋人的打工仔高級作業員打遍台灣無敵手的八卦?
ASML其實也是靠台積回饋數據才能研發下一台曝光機好嗎???
你以為ASML沒有fab廠數據搞得出來喔
且就算沒有ASML,也還有Nikon阿,當初聯電就是和Nikon綁再一起
ASML反而要感謝台積願意跟它合作好嗎,不然台積跟Nikon,ASML誰會聽過???
這是分工的世界,本來就沒有甚麼產品是全部自己搞得
所有的產品都要合作,合作分工懂嗎??
就像美國車廠,國防,可能螺絲都要跟台灣買一樣
所以你會說美國的國防都要靠台灣的螺絲嗎??????
特斯拉,全球電動車,80%也是要跟台灣買晶片,買馬達
沒台灣的晶片,梅台灣的馬達,你怎組裝???
所以你會全球電動車都靠台灣???
最後
IC製造主要是難在,製程有2~3百多道
Dram,我記得大概是20~30道
LCD,大概是10~15道
很多傳產大概也是在10~30道之間
光是要顧的參數複雜度就是一般產業的幾十倍
除了耐操,主要是要非常細心在很多細節,工作是很無聊的
目前除了飛機要幾千道外,沒有任何商業產品的複雜度超過IC製造
至於台灣為何這麼強,可以參考張忠謀自傳
1.亞洲人手小,良率會比歐美高
2.台灣政府,也就是孫運璿和李國鼎遠見
日韓沒有孫李,所以就輸台灣了
--
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工程師
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at 2022-02-12T14:36
at 2022-02-12T14:36
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By Kyle
at 2022-02-13T06:07
at 2022-02-13T06:07
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By Joe
at 2022-02-12T14:36
at 2022-02-12T14:36
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